With all this talk about retaliating against her husband for going public on the Iraq/Niger issue, we seem to have forgotten that Valerie Plame herself was chief of the CIA group responsible for documenting the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and Iran. Ms. Plame could not have failed to understand what Bush and Cheney wanted, but she contumaciously refused to deliver. I know the sequence points to retaliation against her husband, but Cheney believed, based on the first article, that it was Valerie who had dispatched her husband to Niger and could have believed Valerie was the one pressing the issue. I view this not as an act of retaliation againt the husband but as discipline of an insubordinate CIA employee.
Sure, that makes sense. I can't think of a better way to "discipline" an insubordinate covert agent than by blowing her cover, and putting in danger the life of not just that agent but everyone else who might be publicly linked with her.Fucking hell, seer, what colour is the sky on your planet, anyway?
Sheer speculation Seer. In any case, what would Plame be expected to deliver, anyway? There were NO wmd's, so she couldn't very well deliver on anything that didn't exist.
Good point, Ti-Guy. What Seer seems to be suggesting is that Plame was punished for refusing to lie for the administration.Yeah, that would be enough to make me want to ruin someone's life.
Yeah, that would be enough to make me want to ruin someone's life.And put that life in danger, as well as the lives of her contacts and co-workers. But hey, she was disloyal. And Gitmo wasn't set up yet, I guess.Incidentally, I want to thank the Seer for the word of the day: contumaciously. That's an awesome five-dollar word that I don't remember coming across before. Excellent.
Dear ti-guy,I love you ti-guy. I find that your comments consistently are the most inciteful, measured and cogent on this or any blog. I love you so much I often wish you would start your own blog, thereby to free me from the cynicism that erupts out of the parent site like hydrocarbons gushing out of Alberta.Ti-guy, you produce evidence of WMD in Iraq the way the Italians produced evidence that Iraq was buying yellowcake from Niger. Is that so hard to figure out?Please keep in mind that if they had not outed Valerie, she would be spending her days these days trying to tell them that Iran doesn't have The Bomb.Very truly yours,The SeerP. S. The sky on my planet ain't red, but I promise to wear red the next time I'm in Canada on a Friday.
Sometimes the problem with sarcasm is people forget they are actually in agreement...I see your point Seer - that maybe Cheney's motivation was to get Plame out of her job and replaced with someone more pliable. But I agree with CC; if he wanted rid of Plame the standard method is to ensure that she's denied promotions and opportunities until she quits. I think they only reason they would have gone to such an extreme method was to discredit her husband's public remarks, and getting rid of her private dissent was just a bonus.
Ti-guy, you produce evidence of WMD in Iraq the way the Italians produced evidence that Iraq was buying yellowcake from Niger. Is that so hard to figure out?No, it's not at all. I just don't think black ops was Plame's job. That was Michael Ledeen's or Elliot Abrams's or Ahmad Chalabi's or some other pond scum.
Please keep in mind that if they had not outed Valerie, she would be spending her days these days trying to tell them that Iran doesn't have The Bomb.Good to hear that you have inside information that Iran has the bomb.No wonder these tin-pot dictators play these games. They know how to make the angry, militaristic right dance like freakin' puppets on strings. Christ, you're pathetic.
The Seer:You are incredibly ignorant of intelligence issues if you think that outing a NOC, the most highly classified human intelligence category in American intelligence, is a proper way to "discipline" anyone regardless of the merits of the case for disciplining anyone in the first place. If Cheney and company did this with that intent they committed treason against the USA, pure and simple.If they wanted to "discipline" her what they should have done is do it through channels, you know legally. What outing Plame did was expose every foreign contact she ever had to suspicion by their governments as potential American intelligence assets, and depending on the country that can be as mild as lifetime surveillance and refusal of government work and classification clearances ever to imprisonment, torture and death in others. When you consider she was dealing with nuclear proliferation it is highly likely there are some of the latter on Bushco's/Cheney's hands. Then there was the exposure of her covert business and everyone that was ever associated with it as well to the same kind of scrutiny and gave foreign intelligence services a look into the sources and methods by which the CIA sets up NOCs and their cover businesses. Given all of that anyone that presents the kind of argument you just did is screaming their total and complete ignorance of what they are trying to claim they understand. I realize a lot of conservatives love showing off their ignorance in public but really, have you no sense of self respect at all in waving yours in such a blatant manner?
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